I recently commented that the way we as militia might obtain certain items of military hardware would be to bribe enemy supply officers and the people who have access to essential equipment, often with booze, or other comforts.

When I was in ROTC, we frowned on anybody bringing even a single beer into the field. But the reality is, in a garrison town, there will be an NCOs mess, an officers mess, and plenty of booze flowing around when troops are in the rear.

Do traditional brands (Jack, Johnny Red, Patron, Absolut, Grey Goose, Jim, Baileys, etc really fetch a premium to troops who have access to lessor "company" brands in the rear. Would that Mexican supply depot private really see enough difference between a bottle of Patron or a six pack of premium beer to the point that they'd let a dozen AK mags go missing in exchange for the Patron? For those of you who've served abroad, do you generally get stuck with substandard local brands or are mainstream brands available in garrison.

What I'm wondering is, are the cases of liquor sitting in my basement worth keeping, or should I gradually use them up and not replace them. I have a great deal of speciality items like Polish vodkas, French brandy, bourbon and Tennessee Whiskey, Scotch and fancy tequilas. I don't know how to make shine, nor my own wine, and I suspect the enemy can do that as well as I.

Now I'm not suggesting we just give out booze to the enemy, hoping for favors. But what brands will "dry up" in supply in a time of conflict, and what brands will float around in the enemy's officers mess.

I know old men who've died with cases of Johnny Walker Red in their basement, left over from thirty years ago. Their widows frequently had no idea that they had a thousand dollars worth of Scotch in the basement, when they were living off cat food and day old bread.

What liquors will be valuable, and what will be still available in a crunch?

That was a regular currency overseas between civ contractors and military. I think it would never be a regrettable store, even if it is never used to barter with militarized forces, it would always be a "luxerious" trading commodity. I try to make a 10 gallon batch of homemade wine every year to perfect the craft (accoeding to the last batch, I have a few more practice years to go). Seems to me that there would always be a demand.

Fancy booze is a great way to bribe "Officials" The common soldier is happy with bottom shelf booze. A large quantity of cheap whiskey, vodka, gin, etc... will keep most soldiers out of your business. As with anything of value, don't keep everything in one place. When I was a soldier in Germany, A fifth of "Jack" would get you a very good weekend with the German Girls in town. Cigarettes were also a good item for exchange. For 2 packs of American smokes I could a carton of German smokes. It all depends on the barter economy of the area you are in.

I'm sure there will be plenty of POS alcoholics so desperate for a drink they'll be willing to trade their best rifle or handgun for a bottle of genuine pre-SHTF liquor.

Beer takes up too much space, and is only good for one thing; drinking. Liquor offers a larger alcohol per cubic inch ratio, and it is flammable, and strong enough to use as a disinfectant. It also stores better longer.

I personally can't stand the stuff, but the next time you see those big gallon jugs of Jim Beam on sale, pick up a couple.

Smokes, dip, booze and porn.

one better knowing how to make whiskey or wine, beer will be a nice income for older workers who will not get back into the market with todays economy.

Skip the porn. There will be plenty of post-shtf hotties available to give the real thing. Think Burning man, but with no end..

I agree, stockpiles of beer are not as practical as regular liquor. Storage is definitely an issue though if someone with an alcohol problem has access to your cache.

As for particular brands, I think maybe you could do well just to get advice from local liquor store employees. They would probably be happy to point you in the right direction of what is on sale, what makes for good storage, and which types can do better in long term storage.

California is a very Liquor friendly state, and in spite of high taxes actually has some of the lowest net prices in the nation because so many places sell liquor to the point that the plastic gallons are fairly common, although I understand they can have long term storage issues. Glass stores well, but if you really wanted to be on to something the game would be having it in the wooden barrels. I have never done it that way and could imagine it would be difficult to set up but once you have that, then ten and twenty years down the road you really have something of value.

Just taking the advice of liquor store owner/employees helped me save a few hundred when I was stocking my home bar and that stuff adds up very quickly. I would also consider advising people to look into wines at the discount stores, since there are bargains in those places too, but some wines are better than others when it comes to longer term storage.

The only route I never personally stepped up to was stocking a wine cellar direct from wineries buy purchasing case lots.

A lot of this is going to depend on the storage space that you have available, and whether or not you plan on being mobile. The whole idea of having a moonshine still is a lot like being set up for reloading. One upon a time, I had well over $1200 in Dillon reloading equipment that I hardly ever used in a time of $89.95 cases of Wolf ammo. I eventually passed off the equipment to a fellow survivor on the agreement that he would get it at a special discount, as long as he did some special loads for me from time to time, like my target ammo and tracers. He of course sold the equipment the day he figured he could make a profit on it, then brought back my unloaded tracer bullets a few months later, saying he never found out what sort of powder would be the best to use, so he never did the reloading. In the meantime, I was buying cases of ammo every time I went to a gun show and trucking the ammo to my home area and selling it at a nominal markup. Thus my SHTF supply got bigger, fresher and factory made.

On the alcohol side, I think it might not be such a bad idea to get involved businesswise in some sort of small roadhouse/bar, either official or private. Privately, this is done as a "clubhouse" which can then be rented out by people for parties, or private events. Laws vary a little bit on it state by state but generally there is not going to be a law against stockpiling the liquor and having a bar in your house.

Breacher,

As for the clubhouse side, an organization I'm involved in has a legitimate clubhouse. We made the decision many years ago to keep it dry, for two principle reasons. One, there are a lot of stupid people who will think nothing of three cocktails, coolers and/or beers. Those people hit the road when the night ends, and they get a DUI. Or worse, they kill somebody and the guy who holds the liquor license, or owns the building where the liquor is consumed, gets nailed with a hefty suit, and quite likely will lose everything he owns. Sometimes it's the drunk who dies, and suddenly, he becomes a model citizen and again there's a hefty suit.

The other reason not to have alcohol served (for profit) is that it's a tough business. I used to go to a lounge with had drinks ranging from 3 dollars to well over thirty. He operated for about five years, running a restaurant and bar. Even if your draw is bottom-priced drinks, you still have to invest in stock, hire a staff (you don't want to be having a day job, working at a bar till 3AM and trying to keep the wife and kids in your life) and account for incidentals.

For example, how many shot glasses are enough? 100? 200? 10?When a person breaks one or tosses it in their handbag, are they easily replaceable. How about a legitimate bottle of Grey Goose Citron. It's clearly a luxury and definitely a speciality item (after all, you can use Absolut or Smirnoff) and what do you do when it runs dry. What do you do when all you've got left is Russian Prince and somebody decides they're going to drink you dry. What do you tell the alky when you're out of corn whiskey and he's got a 1911 on his hip. What if you get robbed? Vandals? Employee theft?

There are some good ideas about stockpiling liquor. I'd rather, every payday go get a 26 of something worthwhile, than buy gallon jugs of vodka and rum. When I need to bribe a QSM or line private who is willing to let "one" spare clip go missing from inventory. When I need to take advantage of an alky enemy officer who is more than willing to sit around with a civilian who happens to have an old bottle of Jack and just wants info on something mundane.

Good ideas, some worthwhile.

CK

I guess social isolation and insulation play a role in all of this. If you have vulnerable assets, then there are issues of those assets being at risk. I could guess that's where you end up having to play the shell game of property management, vs control vs ownership along with the "some rules are made to be broken" rules, but the closer you get to a government structure breakdown, the more realistic people must become, because there is no big momma state to whine to and get things your way when you get drunk and wrap your truck around a telephone pole.

We are also a militia forum here, and by default we are implying that these activities would be taking place in enclaves where we are operating more or less with public consent.

Example, the roadhouse lodge operated by an individual or group on an old farm, maybe obtained for free, maybe leased, maybe bought cheap before the collapse, maybe inherited. Maybe corporate property your controlled before the breakdown.

Life would go on, kids get born, poverty would be common but I think a lot of people would cope. The displaced would be everywhere, people living out of their cars, maybe out of backpacks. They don't have insurance any more, can barely pay for gas and repairs. A lot traded their stylish sport sedans for RVs just prior to the collapse and travel in family convoys, maybe following the fair weather and jobs that go with it, college degree holders living out of vans and doing farm labor work for minimum wage. Decent folks on hard times. That's the kinds of people who would be staying at the various speakeasy lodges, sometimes trading bartering work for room and board, other times paying cash out of their meager salaries when they get work. Nobody within the networks actually outright turned away.

Staying in a bunk in a barn loft with access to the outhouse, shower house and the stewpot in the evening $10 or equivalent. Cheap booze passed around, maybe buck a drink stuff served to 2AM then a communal breakfast served between 6Am and 8AM. Those who have work locally head out, those who don't have work will lounge around, maybe work on vehicles, do local maintenance, then chop wood for the fires an hour or two, or work in the gardens a couple hours harvesting some vegetables for the evening stew. Maybe someone goes hunting and gets a wild boar at night which will feed the lodge for a day or two, with roast meat the first night, with leftovers making the stew more hearty on a few other nights.

Mutual defense would be expected, although a localized security cadre would keep a lot in order.

A lot of the people would be on the run in one way or another, having ditched debts, maybe skipped out on onerous government regulations, people on the run from tax related offenses, maybe some felons in the mix, like those who made money illegaly for a while, or broke gun laws, or got caught in some anti-government vigilante action.

Nobody should be expecting absolute free handouts without contribution in such networks or lodge places, but likewise, lodge owners, whether individuals or groups would be engaged in trade, and alcohol would be one of the many things used to ease the hardships of the entire neo-depression lifestyle.

Not every day is a gunfight, but weekly, monthly, someone might be having an incident somewhere, a group of travelers rolling in with shot up vehicles, telling stories about how it got bad for them at some particular truck stop in some town, or how they were hit with a detour on a freeway, channeled into a bad neighborhood and had to shoot their way out.

My take on it, whoever owns the impromptu lodge would be smart to trade in alcohol, and whoever is traveling around in convoy might be smart to stock up on certain trade items when they become available, as the cargo weight to value ratio for the alcohol is not half bad. That, and if you are trading alcohol, it looks less sinister than simply rolling in and being a merchant of death wheeling and dealing in contraband weapons which everyone keeps but often don't admit to having.

I know that's how some lifestyles work right now in a lot of parts of the entire "Jefferson State" area of northern California and southern Oregon, since that area is well removed from federal centers of power and somewhat removed from state centers of power, although the federal government has been flexing its way to southern Oregon lately.

If you store wine and it goes bad, it still has some value as vinegar. Wine that is well preserved will be widely prized for Communion purposes.

However, for a trade item, hard liquor is your best bet. You can pour it into smaller containers, water it down, mix drinks with it, and a bunch more stuff. I guess what I'm saying is that its more versatile than wine.

The biggest threat to ANY alcohol that you may have stored is if some booze hound or wino gets into it. Especially if they are good at hiding their alcoholism.

The good news is that none of the Militiamen that I've trained with have alcohol problems. Its just not an issue with any of them, which is great. However, who knows what kind of dirtbags might be showing up late to the party.

Booze, Smokes and TP - Lots of TP. These will all be good barter items.

If you have TP the women will arrive.

And shoes

Louis Vuitton bags and scented things...

Coffee, sugar, salt, aspirin, monthly feminine hygiene products, and soap.

I completely agree here. This knowledge serves many purposes beyond merely 'drinking stock'. Knowing how to make your own alcohol is also critical in making an alternative fuel source in cases of emergency.

Also, during the 'Great Depression' prior to WWII, the mfg'ing, sales, and consuption of 'Booze' more than doubled in this Country. Even to the point that it was called "Faith in a Bottle" or "Demon Liquor" as when people couldn't afford to eat, they could still find the funds to drink because it numbed them from some of the problems in their lives... for a short time.

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Do a brief study on the WWII Resistance in the Philippines, this will help to illustrate the importance of "make-shift supplies and epuipment". Alcohol mfg'ing being a primary source for many things.

http://www.history.army.mil/books/wwii/macarthur%20reports/macarthur%20v1/ch10.htm

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http://running_on_alcohol.tripod.com/ (This can also be built with portable materials for 'drinking alcohol', the mfg'ing of some types of weapons, AND run vehicles too.)
Spoiled wine and beer can be 'redistilled' into fuel products so there is no wasting of any supplies.

Michael