I have been reading through several of the threads on this board, and I must say that I am impressed with the helpfulness and well researched information that is available to newbies like myself. I work on a large swine production farm, and there is a large supply of animal grade antibiotics. I read through a post (not sure exactly where on this board) and the trooper asked if Blu-Kote could be used by humans. We use this product daily ,and I have used it personally. My thoughts are, WTSHTF a feller should liberate and stash as much of this stuff as possible. The reason being if our currency loses its value you can trade the medication's for supplies.

I am talking about medications including Penicillin, Ampacillin, Gentamycin, Spectomycin and Dexamethazone which of course is a steroid. These are all injectable except for the spectam. We also keep ceftiofur and oxytetracyclene inject able

Some of you guys who are in the field tell me what you think. I am not talking about stealing from an employer, but if everything fails it will just be wasted or destroyed and you know as well as I there will rampant pestilence and disease. If my unit can trade it for ammo or other supplies it will be better than currency. Storage and cache would be my other concern , so any suggestions on that would be appreciated.

Gentamicin can cause some serious side effects - like permanent deafness, or kidney damage. This deafness is dose related, and a single dose can cause it - this is one of the reasons it's used only rarely in people.

Spectinomycin has been removed from the market in the US for people...it was used sometimes as a cure for gonorrhea in penicillin-allergic people, but it has side effects too: Rashes, itching, chills. It works in much the same way as Gent does, an aminoglycoside.

Penicillin and ampicillin are both penicillins, with the problems that they cause (allergy, limited effectiveness due to antibiotic resistance, caused in part by giving it to food animals.

And careless use of steroids (including dexamethasone) can cause an adrenal insufficiency crisis (BP control problems, kidney damage), steroid psychosis, immunosupression, pancreatitis, allergy anaphylaxis, etc.


A lot of these problems don't matter much in animals, since they don't live too long, and we don't care if they're deaf.

So what your telling me is it's not worth the trouble. Let me ask you this and I understand what your telling me about the side effects and what occurs when you overdose or under-dose or even abuse these types of medications. Would these not be better than nothing? I would not just want anybody dosing me up, but if I am dying of an infection, and someone like you is coming at me with a big syringe full of Genta I am gonna say "Come On With It". Chances are when it starts out we will not be in a position to seek out medical attention and I don't know you personally, but you sound like a knowledgeable fellow. You can't do much if you don't have anything to do it with. So if I am on the wrong track then I will take your advice. And if it is worth it then do you have any ideas on storage and cache.

Flight-ER-Doc, The spectamycin is an oral medication we give the piglets for diarrhea and ceftiofur is a synthetic antibiotic mainly used for respiratory infections. What about those? Would they be of any use.

Spectinomycin might work against certain human bacteria, but it was removed from the market for a reason...Most respiratory infections in people are not penicillin sensitive so it wouldn't do much. It also has to be given in different doses for people with kidney or liver problems...

Ceftiofur is a third generation cephalosporin, a fairly powerful antibiotic...a similar drug made for humans would be something like Rocephin (ceftriaxone), I'd use it on people if I had nothing else...but only for fairly serious infections of the gut (with some SMX/TMP or similar for anerobic coverage).

Here's the deal: There are lots of different antibiotics because they work in different ways, on different kinds of bacteria. Some antibiotics don't do anything to certain kinds of bacteria (at all)...but the antibiotic will cause other problems, from upset stomach to diarrhea to deafness to death. When I pick a particular antibiotic it's based on what will work for the bacteria at issue, and based on what will work best for the patient: Some antibiotics can only be given intravenously, some have to be injected into muscles, some can only be given orally...because of the way that the antibiotics are absorbed and processed by the body (some drugs are converted into active forms in the body). We also have to consider how long the drug lasts, and how much drug is needed (based on the time it stays around, and how much concentration is needed to kill bacteria).

Some time ago I wrote a short list of antibiotics I recommend for people, you can read it here: http://www.awrm.org/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=9;t=000109

I submitted that to Rawles blog a few years back. Another Rawles blog reader, GeorgiaDoc, did a much better job, I think, in getting the point across, here:
http://www.survivalblog.com/2009/12/antibiotic_use_in_teotwawki_by.html

Using the wrong antibiotic isn't almost good enough, it's worse than doing nothing at all.

Aside from the risks of giving a drug (and all drugs have significant hazards, including aspirin or herbal remedies), you are using up a precious resource that you can't replace...to no purpose.

Also, giving the wrong antibiotic can cause the rest of the bacteria that are normally in your body to become immune to it, if those bacteria share that immunity with other bacteria that you may pick up that can make you sick, you're in deep trouble...now you're sick with something else, and the antibiotics are gone. Or, it may just cause severe diarrhea because it knocks out the normal bacteria in the gut (the ones that are necessary for health), and on top of a bad infection you now have diarrhea - getting dehydrated, and screwing up your electrolytes.

Finally, people take antibiotics far too often. Most infections people get routinely are viral, not bacterial and there is no antibiotic that works on viruses. There are a few antiviral drugs, that don't work very well at all: We can cure bacterial infections (most of them, anyway) but we can't cure viral infections (the most we can hope for is keeping you alive long enough that your body cures itself - or we can prevent a few viral infections, through immunizations (some of which work against bacterial infections too).
When I get a patient with an earache or sore throat, for example, I usually will write a prescription for an antibiotic, but tell them to wait until they've been sick for 3 days to fill it....usually they have a viral infection and it will clear itself: If it lasts 3 more days it's probably bacterial and the drugs will help.

There are times when I think antibiotics are good: If someone gets a penetrating wound to the chest or abdomen I'll load them up before surgery, if they have an open fracture I'll give them a different antibiotic regimen, if they have certain problems (no spleen) I'll be more willing to give them antibiotics than others. But they are a powerful tool, and need to be treated like that - I tell my students that antibiotics are like a running chainsaw and deserve that much respect.

I will bet you are a hell of a good teacher, So is it worth stashing, when things go south????

Thanks. Depends...can you tell what the infection is?

If TSHTF I think places that store animal meds would possibly be overlooked and would possibly be a great resource for people that know how to convert the dose or knew what is or is not safe and whether it was worth the risk. Before I even start thinking about medical supplies beyond bandages and mild pain pills or needed prescription meds, I would hope that I have a month or better food and water plus no need to mention at least a thousand rounds of ammo for everything I have... Antibiotics saved my life once when I had pneumonia and are a great tool in medicine. Normally I refuse antibiotics that are given just in case every time I go to a dentist or a doctor that just assumes he has to do something. If I start feeling better in a day or two I didnt need them... If i dont maybe I should try it...

I'm a new and really appreciate your posts Flight-ER-Doc

Thanks,
Sisu

I am not sure, my thinking is this stuff is available and you know as well as I the "Blue Helmeted Bastards" will be stealing everything that is not nailed down. Maybe I run into a unit from Kentucky. They need antibiotics and I need 5.56. VOILA, everybody gets what they need. I just don't think American currency will be worth anything. Thanks for joining in Sisu.

The list FD'ER gave is really useful.

Most people are stocking up on guns and are totally ignoring not only food but medical supplies as you mention sayitwithamini-14.

A cache of different antibiotics post SHTF of any type will be worth its weight in whatever you want.

Imagine Joe militia guy with 100 AR15s and a 3 y/o daughter with a nasty ear infection. He would probably give you anything for $10 worth of meds.

Or Jane militia girl with a yeast infection. A $10 walmart 1 day treatment will get you anything too (after she's cleaned up of course, LOL).

On top of that is the books and knowledge of what to do with it. PDR, nurses drug reference etc. You don't want to fall into the "a little knowledge can be dangerous" catagory.

Best case is SHTF you can liberate a Dr or a PA and supply him with his needs and use his knowledge in return. I have no problem with sharing my food and supplies with our ER doctors for the years of education and hands on experience they have.

More reason to store lots and lots of food. They will probably also have family they want fed too.

You got that right. Any of you fellers that can make it down here when it happens will walk or drive away with some pork on the hoof. Ain't gonna leave it for the gangsters or illegals. And the first blue helmet I see gets to buy the farm.

Hey...those hogs have to eat, too.....

You know what Doc, I have been growing hogs for 22 years and they don't appreciate anything you do for them............Can you imagine??????What the hell. Thanks again for all the great info.

Well, it's because they're committed, not interested...

You're welcome.